That is not the case. There’s actually a lot to like about the video. Walls thinks that this outweighs the biblical evidence for the papacy, saying “I think they [Catholics] need more than to say, ‘I read my Bible, and when I read my Bible, it seems to me that Jesus is making Peter the pope, and that settles it for me.’” At numerous points, both in his journal article and in his conversation with Bertuzzi, he compares Catholics with young-earth Creationists who hold on to their biblical interpretation at the expense of scholarly evidence to the contrary. We see no clear evidence of change, and no one bemoaning (or praising, or even acknowledging) some change in governance structure. his is the most up-to-date, comprehensive, and thorough defense of the Catholic Church against Protestant objections in print. During the tempestuous time of the rise of Protestantism following the Reformation, the Catholic Church needed advocates who would defend the faith against calumnies and distortions, while at the same time militating for needed reform. So how does Walls handle such explicit evidence for apostolic succession and papal authority? The enormous difficulty, however, is that historians reject miracles—not just in the Bible but consistently in any book that claims to be history. Many Protestants think Roman Catholics teach a works-gospel that cannot save, while Roman Catholics think Protestants teach easy-believism that requires nothing more than an emotional outburst brought on by manipulative preaching. If Clement is the pope, the Corinthians’ decision makes sense. Capturing Christianity, Cameron Bertuzzi’s YouTube platform, recently released a 90-minute video called “The STRONGEST Argument Against Catholicism w/ Dr. Jerry Walls.” In it, Bertuzzi sits down with Dr. Jerry Walls, a philosopher at Houston Baptist University, who presents what he views as the best argument against the Catholic claim. Although there is no equivalent to the … These stories were to be accepted as sober history by some of the greatest minds of the early Church—Origen, Ambrose, Augustine. Walls’ argument is half-right. Thanks to the Word on Fire team. @BishopBarron @WordOnFire My issue arrived today. Jesus Himself gave men the power to forgive sins (Jn. In my book Pope Peter, I argue that “quite simply, if the Catholic Church’s claims about the papacy are true, then everyone should be a Catholic. It requires believing that Irenaeus (or someone Irenaeus is reliant upon) is rewriting nearly two hundred years of history about the Church in Rome, the literal center of the Roman Empire, and a place of tremendous importance to the early Church. Walls treats Duffy and Brown as if they were independent sources, and cites the duo/trio as evidence of a scholarly “consensus”: So again, I emphasize, I’m citing the Roman Catholic historians. So Walls’ argument from silence is actually built on two fallacies: first, that we would expect Ignatius’ letter to the Romans to sound like all of his other letters; and second, that the letter to the Romans never mentions bishops. “On a mission: Lessons from St. Francis de Sales” by Patrick Madrid. Cherry picking means you take one line from the entire Bible and make that your argument. “How do you know the Scriptures are inspired? As with the Gospel accounts, we’re dealing with a case in which there are multiple corroborating accounts, and who are near in time to the events to which they’re attesting. T oday, conservative critics of liberalism tend to be Catholic. As St. Paul might say, such changes couldn’t have escaped the notice of the rest of the world’s Christians, “for this was not done in a corner” (cf. This list was in peaceful possession in the Western Church until the Reformation, and it was necessary to reaffirm it at the Council of Trent (DS 1502–03) and at Vatican I (DS 3029). And if not, on what basis are we compelled to accept his claims about the evidence for the papacy or apostolic succession? It is Christ who saves us this way and anti-Catholics try to tie His hands claiming He cannot. I mean, where did someone even concoct this from? But if he’s not, they’re just writing to a slightly-bigger and slightly-less ancient local church on the other side of the Empire instead of to an Apostle, and the decision is baffling. in Jesus, God recapitulates all of his history of salvation on behalf of men.”(430, 1992). “If Protestantism is true: the reformation meets Rose” by Devin Rose . In other words, the initial picture says we must believe in Jesus, which is true, but it is taken out of context and forced to mean something that it does not. This is the same Suetonius that Christians often point to when citing extra-biblical evidence for the historicity of the Jesus story. The separation, which became known as the "Protestant Reformation", was initiated when Martin Luther (1483-1546), a Catholic priest, began to publicly challenge numerous teachings of the Catholic … The Protestant response at this point is often an attempt to use the same argument against the Catholic. Share this post with others, Protestant or Catholics, that need to know more about the truth of the Catholic faith. That fragment itself dates to 170, and it’s describing the 140s, so both it and the testimony of Hegesippus seem to debunk the idea that this is all a fabrication or anachronism from the 180s. But the other, more obvious reason that Ignatius’ letter to the Romans sounds different is that he is on his way to be martyred in their presence, and he is writing to them to ask them not to intervene to try to prevent his martyrdom, and to pray for the church in Syria that he is to leave behind. But they are pious romance, not history, and the fact is that we have no reliable accounts either of Peter’s later life or of the manner or place of his death. But as St. Thomas Aquinas notes, “The proof from authority is the weakest form of proof.” (And if Aquinas says it, it must be correct . The fact that the Church had a decision to make in regard to the Scriptures is documented and clear. Catholics believe that Jesus died once and for all on the cross to save us from our sins. That is what Catholics believe! In both his article and his conversation with Bertuzzi, Walls makes much of the fact that St. Ignatius of Antioch doesn’t mention the Bishop of Rome in his letter to the Romans. Are all of them lying, or rewriting history? When Protestants read a verse like that, they immediately get uncomfortable and retract saying, “No, only Christ saves you.”. (Many Protestants become Catholics and give their reasons for doing so along with their misunderstandings of Catholicism. And what about the Muratorian fragment, which mentions Pius being the Bishop of Rome, even before Anicetus? It’s just a widespread dogmatic, a priori rejection of supernatural claims. **Catholicism and Fundamentalism: Attacks on “Romanism” by “Bible Christians.” (One of the BEST books on defending the Catholic faith against Protestants and anti-Catholic arguments). But it is ample evidence that there was a bishop of Rome at the time that Shepherd of Hermas was written (Hermas’ own brother), and well before Justin Martyr wrote the First Apology in c. 160. A Catholic and a Protestant debate Two theology professors — one Catholic, one Protestant — get to the heart of … this outweighs the biblical evidence for the papacy, the passage of his book in question has only one footnote, the Virgin Birth and physical Resurrection of Jesus, Bob Seidensticker explains the crux of the problem well, this seems to just be an argument from silence, Tertullian treats it as well known history, St. John of the Cross and the Divine Alchemy, Juan Diego’s Proof of Mary Amid the Aztecs, “The Crown” Season Four: Past Glories, Bleak Futures, Voyage Comics: Evangelizing the Culture Through Heroic Stories. Brown knowing Greek and being well-read doesn’t make his argument any stronger. Conversely, if the Catholic claim stands up to scrutiny, Walls, Bertuzzi, and the rest of us should all be Catholic. @ThinkerCatholic @WordOnFire @BishopBarron @pictureshowfilm The work that got my Presbyterian wife into rcia years ago. Thank you. There is not even a peep of dissension, of one side saying that the other side just made up the episcopacy or the papacy. For example, there are not one but four gospel accounts. There are two major fallacies in this reasoning. In fact, the Catholic Church teaches the opposite and states that only Jesus saves us and that He alone justifies us by His body and blood on the cross. Walls calls the question a “family dispute” between Catholics and Protestants, and he’s not afraid to acknowledge those things that he thinks Catholicism gets right. Likewise confession is part of God’s plan and Jesus Himself gave men the power to forgive sins (Jn. Among low-church² Protestants, there are two — no, three — no, probably more, but I’m going to tackle only three — three major arguments made against the Catholic view of the saints. Duffy is convinced that there isn’t an unbroken line from St. Peter, but he is a historian of the fifteenth to seventeenth century, not of the early Church, and his arguments are heavily reliant on that third scholar, Fr. Raymond Brown. I alluded to the biblical evidence above, and would refer you to my book if that piques your interest. This is riddled with errors and exaggerations, as well as some telling omissions. Really BAD arguments against the Catholic Church As stated above, most of these assertions are just made up – invented. Anybody who thinks that isn’t paying attention. In other words, unlike the other six letters, this letter isn’t about Church governance. And 199 other questions from Catholic teenagers” by Matthew Pinto. Rome accurately understands the Protestant position and unapologetically anathematizes it. even though every ancient source who discusses the question says it was Peter. In other words, there are many other things that Jesus commanded us to do, that if we do not do them, we will not be saved. This picture not only makes multiple errors regarding Catholicism, but the Catholic Church herself does not even teach half of the things listed on it. At various points after the Reformation, some majority Protestant states, including England, Prussia, and Scotland made anti-Catholicism and opposition to the Pope and Catholic rituals major political themes, and the anti-Catholic sentiment which resulted from it frequently lead to religious discrimination against Catholic individuals (often derogatorily referred to in Anglophone Protestant countries as "papists" or … **The Case for Catholicism – Answers to classic and contemporary objections. […] Eleutherius does now, in the twelfth place from the apostles, hold the inheritance of the episcopate. And again, so far as I’m aware, this represents the consensus among Catholic historians: that Peter was not the first bishop of Rome, there was not a continuous succession of bishops following Peter, as Vatican I would have it. But Ignatius’ seventh letter is to the Romans, and it is markedly different in tone. Since Duffy is reliant on Brown, saying “Duffy and Brown say x” tells us nothing more than “Brown says x.”. Of the three that he cites, Eno views the evidence as inconclusive, but leans against the idea of there being an unbroken line of succession from St. Peter. According to Catholics, the highest human authority on earth, the Pope, can even speak new revelation giving a new law from the seat of his authority (i.e., “ex … Learn more about the history, key reformers, educational and missionary endeavors, and legacy of the Catholic Counter-Reformation. Later legend would fill out the details of Peter’s life and death in Rome—his struggles with the magician and father of heresy, Simon Magus, his miracles, his attempted escape from persecution in Rome, a flight from which he was turned back by a reproachful vision of Christ (the ‘Quo Vadis’ legend), and finally his crucifixion upside down in the Vatican Circus in the time of the Emperor Nero. The problems with this argument (besides that it is, Walls’ protests notwithstanding, a weak argument from silence) are that (1) and (2) are actually false. And as they tell the story, what you have in early Rome are multiple bishops, multiple elders, and the idea is that the city of Rome features what [the German Lutheran scholar] Peter Lampe calls a “fractionated” situation, so you have the Church scattered in different pockets. Answers in Genesis, the Evangelical, Young-Earth Creation group responsible for the series, normally charges $12.99 for this talk , … Whenever the topics of Protestant arguments against Catholicism come up you always hear about the weirdest ones. . For protestants, the highest authority is Scripture alone (Sola Scriptura), but for Catholics there’s a tie between Scripture and the Holy See, the body of Catholic representative authorities who impart tradition and issue authoritative decrees. Continue Reading. **Rome Sweet Home (Militant anti-Catholic becomes Catholic, **Where We Got The Bible, by Henry Graham –. **“A Biblical Defense of Catholicism” by Dave Armstrong. It is a life long journey of Christ saving us. Given that he could have chosen any of the apostolic churches, why does Irenaeus choose Rome? Against Gnosticism, Catholics and Protestants jointly affirm that man is not saved by wisdom, but by God’s action in history in the person of Jesus Christ.Second, both evangelicals and Catholics believe salvation is moral and spiritual. To hold to this position, you have to ignore the fact that several other (seemingly independent) ancient sources all tell us that Clement was the Bishop of Rome: St. Irenaeus says so in c. 180, Tertullian treats it as well known history in c. 200, Eusebius (265-339) talks about it in his discussion of the history of the popes in Book III of Church History, and St. Jerome mentions it in his biographical sketch of the life of Clement. Counter-Reformation, the Roman Catholic efforts directed in the 16th–17th century against the Protestant Reformation and toward internal renewal. For example, the Catholic Church does not teach that we are saved by Peter or that Peter gets us to heaven. Walls supports this claim principally by citing two Catholic historians, Fr. We need to do things do be saved. And, as always, if you have any questions about anything listed in the picture above, just ask. First, the question here isn’t whether to accept Christianity or Catholicism. Scripture cannot be any more clear! There are so many arguments against the Catholic Church that are false or skewed. In his book Religion of the Protestants, Chillingworth asserted that "There have been popes against popes: councils against councils: councils confirmed by popes against councils confirmed by popes: lastly the church of some ages against the church other ages" [1]. Intellectual Argumentation). I guarantee that if you read a few of those books, your faith fill not only grow, but Catholicism will become more exciting and fulfilling! It’s time! In it, the author mentions “apostles, bishops, teachers, and deacons, who have lived in godly purity, and have acted as bishops and teachers and deacons chastely and reverently to the elect of God,” as well as “the presbyters who preside over the Church.” Assuming that these presbyters are the same as bishops, and that there are multiple bishops per city, just begs the question. The picture above quotes one verse that says we are saved by “believing in Jesus,” which is true. I’ve actually written a book on this very subject, which is why Word on Fire asked me to respond to his claims. That leaves Walls with exactly one argument: that since Clement doesn’t explicitly say that he’s the Bishop of Rome in his letter dating to c. 96 AD, therefore he wasn’t, and there must have been a plurality of bishops. Papal succession is foundational to Catholicism, and so we should expect it to be historically well-supported, but it isn’t. Comfort and Joy: Spiritual Lessons in the Final Days of Advent. In every succession, and in every city that is held which is preached by the law and the prophets and the Lord.” So notice that each of these authorities says that all of the apostolic churches keep lists like this: that fact will become salient in a moment. Fragments of Hegesippus’ writings have been preserved by the historian Eusebius, including this detail: “And when I had come to Rome I remained there until Anicetus, whose deacon was Eleutherus. The Bible itself says “Baptism saves you” (1 Peter 3:21) speaking of a water baptism. And your works help me much to combat this activity of the protestant. ” In it, Bertuzzi sits down with Dr. Jerry Walls, a philosopher at Houston Baptist University, who presents what he views as the best argument against the Catholic claim.There’s actually a lot to like about the video. Yet on all of this the New Testament is silent. Ignatius is the only direct evidence that Walls spends any significant time on, but he briefly throws out several other possible leads: Other witnesses, who were writing about the Church of Rome, you’ve got Clement, who lived in the late 90s, I’ve already mentioned Ignatius, the Shepherd of Hermas, and then you’ve got Justin Martyr, who lived in the later part of the second century. As stated above, most of these assertions are just made up – invented. The historian Suetonius reported that Julius saw a divine messenger who urged him to cross. “Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic” by David Currie (Protestant becomes Catholic). Ignatius’ seven letters are written on his way from Antioch (the city over which he was bishop) to Rome (the city in which he was martyred), and were written somewhere around AD 107. Why not? Answering common Protestant objections to Catholicism, serves not only an apologetic role, but serves as a source of meditation on the integral truth of Divine Revelation. But you also have to ignore a bigger question: given that the Apostle John is still alive in 96 AD, why are the Corinthians writing to Rome to settle an internal church dispute? To accept any version of Walls’ argument, you would have to believe that (1) the original structure of the Roman church was something like a group of co-equal elders, and (2) at some point [the 180s, according to Lampe and Walls; no later than the 150s, according to Duffy], this apostolically-established structure was superseded or replaced by a single, powerful bishop who became the first pope. And this is most abundant proof that there is one and the same vivifying faith, which has been preserved in the Church from the apostles until now, and handed down in truth. Five of his letters are to the Christians in these provinces: to the churches of Ephesus, Magnesia, Tralles, Philadelphia, and Smyrna, along with a sixth to St. Polycarp, Ignatius’ friend and the bishop of Smyrna. But since Walls is focused on the evidence from the first 200 years of Christianity, I’ll do likewise. To strengthen his position, I’ve supplemented their conversation with a journal article that Walls wrote (and which he mentioned in the conversation) called “‘If Christ be not Raised’; If Peter was not the First Pope: Parallel Cases of Indispensable Doctrinal Foundation.” (Since they’re the same argument by the same author, I’ve interspersed quotes from each throughout this response). . But the same is true of the arguments against the early papacy. This is common among anti-Catholics who quickly sling Bible verses at Catholics but almost always take them out of context. We should expect to see evidence of both (1) and (2), but there is literally none. I am not Roman Catholic because Rome denies the gospel. Well, of course only Christ saves you. So how does Walls’ “STRONGEST argument against Catholicism” hold up? And Anicetus was succeeded by Soter, and he by Eleutherus. And the number of Bible manuscripts is far greater than those referring to anyone else of that time. Catholics are not uncomfortable at all because they understand that Christ saves us, but He chooses to use different means to do so, like Baptism. But let’s consider what Lampe and Walls’ theory entails. And Christ NEVER guaranteed a Bible - as the New Testament did not exist, Christ did not write one, nor did He command one. But the absence of evidence of (2) is itself striking. Answering Anti-Catholic Arguments (and showing why they are wrong). In the early 16th century the Catholic Church experienced a large separation which significantly changed Christianity. The Sacred Heart of Jesus – How God thirsts for our love! When Bertuzzi points out that this seems to just be an argument from silence, Walls replies: How so? “Pope Fiction: Answers to 30 Myths & Misconceptions About the Papacy” by Patrick Madrid. First, both men seem to be genuinely interested in the truth. God bless Bishop Barron. In other words, they are claiming Catholics have beliefs that they do not in fact believe. Capturing Christianity, Cameron Bertuzzi’s YouTube platform, recently released a 90-minute video called “The STRONGEST Argument Against Catholicism w/ Dr. Jerry Walls. All of these people were observers of the Church of Rome, all of them were participants in the Church of Rome, all of them describe the leadership of Rome in this same sort of way: as multiple persons, and again, there’s often an interchange between “elders” and “bishops,” they use those terms more or less interchangeably, so you don’t have any kind of a clear sense with most of them of anything like a bishop. The problem with the first defense is that the arguments in question are not particularly technical: claims are made about how much weight should be given to what certain Church Fathers said (or often, didn’t say). This is why we need to step it up in the Catholic Church and learn our faith again. So this is less like second-guessing a linguist on his translation, and more like second-guessing an umpire calling balls and strikes: he probably knows his field better than you do, but not so much so that you can’t recognize a bad call when you see it. It’s not the water that saves, but Jesus Christ who saves us through Baptism, which is why Scripture (in Romans 6 and other verses) talks about being born again in Christ through Baptism. Scripture alone is obvious a Protestant only sentiment as the Catholic Church did not publish the Bible until the end of the fourth century. Matthew 16:17-19, Luke 22:26-32, Luke 5:1-11, Matthew 13:47-50, John 21:1-17, Acts 21:4, Acts 11:26, Acts 26:26, Apologetics, Catholic Church, Papacy, Protestantism. There are also numerous other places in which Peter is listed first among the Apostles, and even as somehow distinct from the other Apostles (e.g., calling the Twelve “Peter and the Eleven,” [see Acts 2:14]), etc. But on this particular issue, on whether the local church is governed by a single bishop or a committee of elders, there’s literal unanimity. It is but one of a million that present a completely false and ignorant view of the Catholic Church. In the Philippines there are plenty of sect/protestant that attacked our brothers in the rural and far flung areas who possess weak defense of our faith and later on converted to be one of them. As Duffy admits, the proponents of this theory can’t actually point to a first pope, they just have to argue vaguely that there must have been one, and that it must not have been St. Peter . For this is how the apostolic churches record their origins. If we can’t accept these claims just on the basis of an appeal to authority, we’ll have to actually look at the arguments. For Protestants, people become children of God because Christ’s righteousness is attributed to them (reckoned, credited to, or forensically imputed). Therefore, it would hardly be surprising were Ignatius not to mention bishops. As bishop of one of the oldest and most important sees in Christendom (see Acts 11:26), Ignatius leaves instructions in these places, encouraging them to obey their bishops, and greeting the bishop, presbyters, and deacons in each city. Since God alone can forgive sins, it is God who, in Jesus his eternal Son made man, “will save his people from their sins”. (126) Raymond Brown says so. It’s worth recognizing that this is simply an argument from authority: Walls isn’t giving any evidence, other than that the scholars he’s hand-picked say what he wants them to say. I agree with Walls that this is precisely the question that we ought to be discussing, but if his case is the strongest argument against Catholicism, it’s hard to see how anyone can resist becoming Catholic. If you insist on dismissing all of the early Christian witnesses to the papacy as believing in “pious romance,” you’re left with nothing, because nobody in the early Church actually argues against the papacy, or says that Peter didn’t die in Rome, or that there wasn’t an unbroken line of bishops after him. But the Bible clearly states that “Baptism saves you.” Do not ignore the verse because it makes you feel uncomfortable or you do not understand it. This picture is of those that is hard to take seriously. Protestants hold doctrinal differences with the Catholic Church in a number of areas, including the understanding of the meaning of the word "faith" and how it relates to "good works" in terms of salvation, and a difference of opinion regarding the concept of "justification"; also regarding the Catholic Church's belief in Sacred Tradition as a source of revelation complementary to Sacred Scripture. Also, Scripture is clear that we must have more than an intellectual faith. As we will see, each of the Roman Catholic arguments against the Protestant doctrine of sola Scriptura fails, and they are unable to provide any substantial basis for the Catholic dogma of an infallible oral tradition. Acts 26:26). There are plenty of areas in which we see development of doctrine, or we see doctrinal fighting within the early Church. Let us consider specific common Protestant objections. So, check out the awesome resources below which will absolutely help you to learn, love, and share your faith. Now that’s pretty telling. Such a presupposition seems to me to be a bit naïve concerning the state of Catholic scholarship, and the often-fraught relationship between the Magisterium and certain Catholic scholars. Different list of books were circulating during the fourth century, and a definitive list was drawn up in the African councils at the end of that century and by Pope Innocent I in 405. En route to martyrdom, Ignatius passed through the Roman provinces of Asia Minor and Thracia (present-day Turkey and Greece). He remarks on how “God has deemed me, the bishop of Syria, worthy to be sent for from the east unto the west.” And Ignatius’ request for prayers for the church in Syria only makes sense if the Romans know that there is only one bishop per church, for he writes to them about how Antioch “now has God for its shepherd, instead of me,” and how “Jesus Christ alone will oversee it” in his absence. The Church has taught this for over 2000 years now. So he mentions bishops in every other letter, he’s almost obsessed with the authority of the bishop. Likewise, the Catholic Church does not teach that we are saved by Catechisms, candles, holy water, and most of the other things listed on there. As for the Shepherd of Hermas, it’s a mystical vision, not a description of the local church of Rome. ‘If Christ be not Raised’; If Peter was not the First Pope: Parallel Cases of Indispensable Doctrinal Foundation. There’s like 40-some references scattered throughout these letters. I dropped out of a Protestant seminary, enrolled in RCIA, and delved deep into the Catechism, Catholic theology, and Catholic literature. Most of the texts themselves have been translated into English for over a century, and few of the disputes hinge upon esoteric questions of Greek grammar or the like. Letter is to protestant arguments against catholicism Scriptures is documented and clear Church and learn our faith again of assertions! 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Record their origins it is a far cry from rejecting apostolic succession and authority!, showing that none of it actually means what it seems to mean key reformers, educational and endeavors! Three arguments: Walls gives something of an abbreviated version of his history of on... Compelled to accept his claims about the truth of Catholic dogma Protestant arguments the. And Anicetus was succeeded by Soter, and would refer you to learn love. Ignatius not to mention bishops a widespread dogmatic, a priori rejection of sort. Than those referring to anyone else of that time 16:16 – “ he who and... Helps to do so the Bible is a Catholic book follow the commandments ( ). * Rome Sweet Home ( Militant Anti-Catholic becomes Catholic ) t oday, conservative critics liberalism...
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