I know that's another loaded phrase. Maybe there's some residual fear that's been built up in me. So I got a copy of it from the Library of Congress, started reading through, and there, in fact, I was reading about this incredible discovery from the '90s. We still have almost 700 with us. The Immortality Key, The Secret History of the Religion With No Name. Liked by Samuel Zuschlag. "@BrianMuraresku with @DocMarkPlotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More" Please enjoy! I mean, shouldn't everybody, shouldn't every Christian be wondering what kind of wine was on that table, or the tables of the earliest Christians? The continuity theory proposes that older adults maintain the same activities, behaviors, personalities, and relationships of the past. And I feel like I accomplished that in the afterword to my book. So I went fully down the rabbit hole. He's the god of wine. And I think that's an important distinction to make. From about 1500 BC to the fourth century AD, it calls to the best and brightest of not just Athens but also Rome. He calls it a drug against grief in Greek, [SPEAKING GREEK]. [1] According to this theory, older adults try to maintain this continuity of lifestyle by adapting strategies that are connected to their past experiences. For me, that's a question, and it will yield more questions. 1,672. So I was obsessed with this stuff from the moment I picked up an article in The Economist called the God Pill back in 2007. But the point being, the religion of brewing seems to pop up at the very beginning of civilization itself, or the very beginning of monumental engineering at this world's first sanctuary. And so in my afterword, I present this as a blip on the archaeochemical radar. According to Muraresku, this work, BOOK REVIEW which "presents the pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist," addresses two fundamental questions: "Before the rise of Christianity, did the Ancient Greeks consume a secret psychedelic sacrament during their most famous and well-attended religious rituals? So in the mountains and forests from Greece to Rome, including the Holy Land and Galilee. And shouldn't we all be asking that question? And we know from the record that [SPEAKING GREEK] is described as being so crowded with gods that they were easier to find than men. This discussion on Febrary 1, 2021, between CSWR Director Charles Stang and Brian Muraresku about his new book, The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name,a groundbreaking dive into the role of psychedelics in the ancient Mediterranean world. And inside that beer was all kinds of vegetable matter, like wheat, oats, and sedge and lily and flax and various legumes. I mean, so it was Greek. He was wronged by individuals, allegedly. And the truth is that this is a project that goes well beyond ancient history, because Brian is convinced that what he has uncovered has profound implications for the future of religion, and specifically, the future of his own religion, Roman Catholicism. Get personalized recommendations, and learn where to watch across hundreds of streaming providers. So how to put this? Who were the Saints? He has talked about the potential evidence for psychedelics in a Mithras liturgy. So listening right now, there's at least one orthodox priest, there's at least one Catholic priest, an Episcopalian, an Anglican, and several others with whom I've been talking in recent months. There's some suggestive language in the pyramid texts, in the Book of the Dead and things of this nature. What was being thrown into it? Now, it doesn't have to be the Holy Grail that was there at the Last Supper, but when you think about the sacrament of wine that is at the center of the world's biggest religion of 2.5 billion people, the thing that Pope Francis says is essential for salvation, I mean, how can we orient our lives around something for which there is little to no physical data? I'm trying to get him to speak in the series about that. Now that the pagan continuity hypothesis is defended, the next task is to show that the pagan and proto-Christian ritual sacraments were, in fact, psychedelicbrews. What's significant about these features for our piecing together the ancient religion with no name? I think psychedelics are just one piece of the puzzle. So first of all, please tell us how it is you came to pursue this research to write this book, and highlight briefly what you think are its principal conclusions and their significance for our present and future. That's just everlasting. That's, just absurd. 7:30 The three pillars to the work: the Eucharist as a continuation of the pharmako and Dionysian mysteries; the Pagan continuity theory; and the idea that through the mysteries "We can die before we die so that when we die we do not die" 13:00 What does "blood of Christ" actually mean; the implied and literal cannibalism The most colorful theory of psychedelics in religion portrays the original Santa Claus as a shaman. So. CHARLES STANG: OK. And that's a question equally for ancient historians and for contemporary seekers and/or good Catholics. Which, again, what I see are small groups of people getting together to commune with the dead. CHARLES STANG: I have one more question about the pre-Christian story, and that has to do with that the other mystery religion you give such attention to. would certainly appreciate. BRIAN MURARESKU: Dr. Stang, an erudite introduction as ever. Whether there's a psychedelic tradition-- I mean, there are some suggestive paintings. 8th century BC from the Tel Arad shrine. In this way, the two traditions coexisted in a syncretic form for some time before . Then what was the Gospel of John, how did it interpret the Eucharist and market it, and so on. They minimized or completely removed the Jewish debates found in the New Testament, and they took on a style that was more palatable to the wider pagan world. That's our next event, and will be at least two more events to follow. They did not. 40:15 Witches, drugs, and the Catholic Church . let's take up your invitation and move from Dionysus to early Christianity. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of " tikkun olam "repairing and improving I'm not sure where it falls. But when it comes to that Sunday ritual, it just, whatever is happening today, it seems different from what may have motivated the earliest Christians, which leads me to very big questions. You're not confident that the pope is suddenly going to issue an encyclical. And that that's how I-- and by not speculating more than we can about the mystical supper, if we follow the hypothesis that this is a big if for some early communities of Greek speakers, this is how I'm finding common ground with priests both Catholic and Orthodox and Protestants. But maybe you could just say something about this community in Catalonia. It's not just Cana. But I'm pressing you because that's my job. 474, ?] And the second act, the same, but for what you call paleo-Christianity, the evidence for your suspicion that the Eucharist was originally a psychedelic sacrament. Brought to you by Wealthfront high-yield savings account, Peloton Row premium rower for an efficient workout, and You Need A Budget cult-favorite money management app.. Rick Rubin is a nine-time GRAMMY-winning producer, one of Time magazine's 100 most influential people in the world, and the most successful producer in any genre, according to Rolling Stone. Maybe I'm afraid I'll take the psychedelic and I won't have what is reported in the literature from Hopkins and NYU. Psychedelics Today: PTSF 35 (with Brian Muraresku) Griffithsfund.org So here's a question for you. Brian launched the instant bestseller on the Joe Rogan Experience, and has now appeared on CNN, NPR, Sirius XM, Goop-- I don't even know what that is-- and The Weekly Dish with Andrew Sullivan. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. That would require an entirely different kind of evidence. BRIAN MURARESKU: I'm bringing more illumination. Because again, when I read the clinical literature, I'm reading things that look like mystical experiences, or that at least at least sound like them. Is there a smoking gun? Was there any similarity from that potion to what was drunk at Eleusis? It tested positive for the microscopic remains of beer and also ergot, exactly the hypothesis that had been put forward in 1978 by the disgraced professor across town from you, Carl Ruck, who's now 85 years old, by the way. But what we do know is that their sacrament was wine and we know a bit more about the wine of antiquity, ancient Greek wine, than we can piece together from these nocturnal celebrations. Because very briefly, I think Brian and others have made a very strong case that these things-- this was a biotechnology that was available in the ancient world. Joe Campbell puts it best that what we're after is an experience of being alive. BRIAN MURARESKU: But you're spot on. BRIAN MURARESKU: Great question. And I'm not even sure what that piece looks like or how big it is. So what I think we have here in this ergtotized beer drink from Catalonia, Spain, and in this weird witch's brew from 79 AD in Pompeii, I describe it, until I see evidence otherwise, as some of the very first heart scientific data for the actual existence of actual spiked wine in classical antiquity, which I think is a really big point. But let me say at the outset that it is remarkably learned, full of great historical and philological detail. The big question is, did any of these recipes, did any of this wine spiking actually make its way into some paleo-Christian ceremony. So I'm not convinced that-- I think you're absolutely right that what this establishes is that Christians in southern Italy could have-- could have had access to the kinds of things that have been recovered from that drug farm, let's call it. They found a tiny chalice this big, dated to the second century BC. And I'm happy to see we have over 800 people present for this conversation. So again, if there were an early psychedelic sacrament that was being suppressed, I'd expect that the suppressors would talk about it. Despite its popular appeal as a New York Times Bestseller, TIK fails to make a compelling case for its grand theory of the "pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist" due to recurring overreach and historical distortion, failure to consider relevant research on shamanism and Christianity, and presentation of speculation as fact So it's hard for me to write this and talk about this without acknowledging the Jesuits who put me here. So thank you, all who have hung with us. Just imagine, I have to live with me. Not in every single case, obviously. We have some inscriptions. Now is there any evidence for psychedelic use in ancient Egypt, and if not, do you have any theory as to why that's silent? And in his book [? When there's a clear tonal distinction, and an existing precedent for Christian modification to Pagan works, I don't see why you're resistant to the idea, and I'm curious . I'll invite him to think about the future of religion in light of all this. And I, for one, look forward to a time when I can see him in person for a beer, ergotized beer or not, if he ever leaves Uruguay. We're going to get there very soon. And it seems to me that if any of this is right, that whatever was happening in ancient Greece was a transformative experience for which a lot of thought and preparation went into. Amongst all the mystery religions, Eleusis survives. Nage ?] First I'll give the floor to Brian to walk us into this remarkable book of his and the years of hard work that went into it, what drove him to do this. CHARLES STANG: So in some sense, you're feeling almost envy for the experiences on psychedelics, which is to say you've never experienced the indwelling of Christ or the immediate knowledge of your immortality in the sacrament. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More Brought to you by GiveWell.org charity research and effective giving and 5-Bullet Friday, my very own email newsletter. Dogs, indicative of the Greek goddess Hecate, who, amongst other things was known as the [GREEK], the dog eater. Oh, I hope I haven't offended you, Brian. And when Houston says something like that, it grabs the attention of a young undergrad a bit to your south in Providence, Rhode Island, who was digging into Latin and Greek and wondering what the heck this was all about. And what we find at this farmhouse is a sanctuary that Enriqueta Pons herself, the archaeologist who's been on site since 1990, she calls it some kind of sanctuary dedicated to the goddesses of the mysteries. So after the whole first half of the book-- well, wait a minute, Dr. Stang. But unfortunately, it doesn't connect it to Christianity. Thank you all for joining us, and I hope to see many of you later this month for our next event. And when you speak in that way, what I hear you saying is there is something going on. They followed Platonic (and other Greeks) philosophy. And I think oversight also comes in handy within organized religion. But what we do know about the wine of the time is that it was routinely mixed with plants and herbs and potentially fungi. So perhaps there's even more evidence. CHARLES STANG: OK. But what I hear from people, including atheists, like Dina Bazer, who participated in these Hopkins NYU trials is that she felt like on her one and only dose of psilocybin that she was bathed in God's love. These-- that-- Christians are spread out throughout the eastern Mediterranean, and there are many, many pockets of people practicing what we might call, let's just call it Christian mysticism of some kind. He decides to get people even more drunk. And that's what I get into in detail in the book. I want to thank you for your candor. Now, here's-- let's tack away from hard, scientific, archaeobotanical evidence for a moment. Maybe I have that wrong. So it is already happening. But so as not to babble on, I'll just say that it's possible that the world's first temple, which is what Gobekli Tepe is referred to as sometimes, it's possible the world's first temple was also the world's first bar. So this is the tradition, I can say with a straight face, that saved my life. And I don't know if there's other examples of such things. That there is no hard archaeobotanical, archaeochemical data for spiked beer, spiked wine. And even Burkert, I think, calls it the most famous of the mystery rituals. What was the wine in the early Eucharist? So why do you think psychedelics are so significant that they might usher in a new Reformation? So the closer we get to the modern period, we're starting to find beer, wine mixed with interesting things. You might find it in a cemetery in Mexico. This two-part discussion between Muraresku and Dr. Plotkin examines the role psychedelics have played in the development of Western civilization. So Brian, I wonder, maybe we should give the floor to you and ask you to speak about, what are the questions you think both ancient historians such as myself should be asking that we're not, and maybe what are the sorts of questions that people who aren't ancient historians but who are drawn to this evidence, to your narrative, and to the present and the future of religion, what sort of questions should they be asking regarding psychedelics? Because for many, many years, you know, Ruck's career takes a bit of a nosedive. And if it only occurs in John, the big question is why. Let's move to early Christian. She joins me for most events and meetings. Interesting. Now, that is part of your kind of interest in democratizing mysticism, but it also, curiously, cuts out the very people who have been preserving this tradition for centuries, namely, on your own account, this sort of invisible or barely visible lineage of women. In my previous posts on the continuity hypothesis . Church of the Saints Faustina and Liberata, view from the outside with the entrance enclosure, at "Sante" place, Capo di Ponte (Italy). And all we know-- I mean, we can't decipher sequence by sequence what was happening. But you will be consoled to know that someone else will be-- I will be there, but someone else will be leading that conversation. That they were what you call extreme beverages. I write it cognizant of the fact that the Eucharist doesn't work for many, many people. So back in 2012, archaeologists and chemists were scraping some of these giant limestone troughs, and out pops calcium oxalate, which is one of these biomarkers for the fermentation of brewing. So how does Dionysian revelries get into this picture? In this episode, Brian C. Muraresku, who holds a degree from Brown University in Latin, Greek and Sanskrit,  joins Breht to discuss his fascinating book "The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name", a groundbreaking dive into the use of hallucinogens in ancient Greece, the Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, the role of the Eucharist in early Christianity, the . The continuity between pagan and Christian cult nearby the archaeological area of Naquane in Capo di Ponte. It's a big question for me. And another: in defending the pagan continuity hypothesis, Muraresku presumes a somewhat non-Jewish, pagan-like Jesus, while ignoring the growing body of psychedelic literature, including works by . I'm going to come back to that idea of proof of concept. There he is. What Brian labels the religion with no name. And there were moments when the sunlight would just break through. The long and short of it is, in 1978 there was no hard scientific data to prove this one way or the other. So somewhere between 1% and 49%. He co-writes that with Gordon Wasson and Albert Hofmann, who famously-- there it is, the three authors. Brian's thesis, that of the Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, was explored by Alexander Hislop in his "The Two Babylons", 1853, as a Protestant treatise in the spirit of Martin Luther as Alexander too interjects the Elusinian Mysteries. CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF WORLD RELIGIONS, Harvard Divinity School42 Francis Avenue, Cambridge, Massachusetts 02138 617.495.4495, my.hds |Harvard Divinity School |Harvard University |Privacy |Accessibility |Digital Accessibility | Trademark Notice |Reporting Copyright Infringements. But please do know that we will forward all these questions to Brian so he will know the sorts of questions his work prompts. To assess this hypothesis and, perhaps, to push it further, has required years of dogged and, at times, discouraging works in archives and archaeology. CHARLES STANG: My name is Charles Stang, and I'm the director of the Center for the Study of World Religions here at Harvard Divinity School. So you lean on the good work of Harvard's own Arthur Darby Nock, and more recently, the work of Dennis McDonald at Claremont School of Theology, to suggest that the author of the Gospel of John deliberately paints Jesus and his Eucharist in the colors of Dionysus. So Pompeii and its environs at the time were called [SPEAKING GREEK], which means great Greece. Thank you. What does that have to do with Christianity? And there were gaps as well. You want to field questions in both those categories? Now we're getting somewhere. Now, let's get started, Brian. This book by Brian Muraresku, attempts to answer this question by delving into the history of ancient secret religions dating back thousands of years. Why don't we turn the tables and ask you what questions you think need to be posed? And her answer was that they'd all been cleaned or treated for conservation purposes. What does ergotized beer in Catalonia have anything to do with the Greek mysteries at Eleusis? They linked the idea of witches to an imagined organized sect which was a danger to the Christian commonwealth. So let's talk about the future of religion, and specifically the future of Roman Catholicism. And now we have a working hypothesis and some data to suggest where we might be looking. Because at my heart, I still consider myself a good Catholic boy. So don't feel like you have to go into great depth at this point. And nor do I think that you can characterize southern Italy as ground zero for the spirit of Greek mysticism, or however you put it. So why the silence from the heresiologists on a psychedelic sacrament? Then I'll ask a series of questions that follow the course of his book, focusing on the different ancient religious traditions, the evidence for their psychedelic sacraments, and most importantly, whether and how the assembled evidence yields a coherent picture of the past. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of "tikkun olam"repairing and . You also find a Greek hearth inside this sanctuary. That is about the future rather than the ancient history. We know from the literature hundreds of years beforehand that in Elis, for example, in the Western Peloponnese, on the same Epiphany-type timeline, January 5, January 6, the priests would walk into the temple of Dionysus, leave three basins of water, the next morning they're miraculously transformed into wine. CHARLES STANG: OK. Now let's move into the Greek mystery. and he said, Brian, don't you dare. McGovern also finds wine from Egypt, for example, in 3150 BC, wine that is mixed with a number of interesting ingredients. We don't have to look very hard to find that. We call it ego dissolution, things of that nature. I appreciate this. There are others claiming that there's drugs everywhere. OK-- maybe one of those ancient beers. He's been featured in Forbes, the Daily Beast, Big Think, and Vice. But we do know that the initiates made this pilgrimage from Athens to Eleusis, drunk the potion, the kykeon, had this very visionary event-- they all talk about seeing something-- and after which they become immortal. There's a good number of questions that are very curious why you are insisting on remaining a psychedelic virgin. Maybe there's a spark of the divine within. It is not psychedelics. But if the original Eucharist were psychedelic, or even if there were significant numbers of early Christians using psychedelics like sacrament, I would expect the representatives of orthodox, institutional Christianity to rail against it. If you are drawn to psychedelics, in my mind, it means you're probably drawn to contemplative mysticism. Nage ?] 283. Material evidence of a very strange potion, a drug, or a [SPEAKING GREEK]. Well, let's get into it then. So throughout the book, you make the point that ancient beer and wine are not like our beer and wine. And I wonder whether the former narrative serves the interests of the latter. But things that sound intensely powerful. And what about the alleged democratization with which you credit the mysteries of Dionysus, or the role of women in that movement? difficult to arrive at any conclusive hypothesis. And I offer psychedelics as one of those archaic techniques of ecstasy that seems to have been relevant and meaningful to our ancestors. And I wonder and I question how we can keep that and retain that for today. The Gnostics did have continuity with paganism. I understand more papers are about to be published on this. Because ergot is just very common. The idea of the truth shall set you free, right, [SPEAKING GREEK], in 8:32. Which turns out, it may be they were. But Egypt seems to not really be hugely relevant to the research. Read more 37 people found this helpful Helpful Report abuse Tfsiebs So much research! I will ask Brian to describe how he came to write this remarkable book, and the years of sleuthing and studying that went into it. No, I think you-- this is why we're friends, Charlie. So we not only didn't have the engineering know-how-- we used to think-- we didn't have even settled life to construct something like this. And I don't know if it's a genuine mystical experience or mystical mimetic or some kind of psychological breakthrough. And that's not how it works today, and I don't think that's how it works in antiquity. Then there's what were the earliest Christians doing with the Eucharist. The mysteries of Dionysus, a bit weirder, a bit more off the grid. CHARLES STANG: I do, too. Again, it's proof of concept for going back to Eleusis and going back to other sites around the Mediterranean and continuing to test, whether for ergotized beer or other things. We have an hour and a half together and I hope there will be time for Q&A and discussion. They are guaranteed an afterlife. I see it as-- well, OK, I'd see it as within a minority. One attendee has asked, "How have religious leaders reacted so far to your book? [texts-excerpt] penalty for cutting mangroves in floridaFREE EstimateFREE Estimate And I think we get hung up on the jargon. And if the latter, do you think there's a good chance that religions will adopt psychedelics back into their rituals?". Now, Brian managed to write this book while holding down a full time practice in international law based in Washington DC. And the quote you just read from Burkert, it's published by Harvard University Press in 1985 as Greek Religion. So when you take a step back, as you well know, there was a Hellenic presence all over the ancient Mediterranean. There aren't any churches or basilicas, right, in the first three centuries, in this era we're calling paleo-Christianity. Please materialize. Because every time I think about ancient wine, I am now immediately thinking about wine that is spiked. And so I can see psychedelics being some kind of extra sacramental ministry that potentially could ease people at the end of life. CHARLES STANG: OK, great. So I'll speak in language that you and our good colleague Greg [? Several theories address the issue of the origin of the Romanians.The Romanian language descends from the Vulgar Latin dialects spoken in the Roman provinces north of the "Jireek Line" (a proposed notional line separating the predominantly Latin-speaking territories from the Greek-speaking lands in Southeastern Europe) in Late Antiquity.The theory of Daco-Roman continuity argues that the . It seems entirely believable to me that we have a potion maker active near Pompeii. So those are all possibly different questions to ask and answer. And I think there are lots of reasons to believe that. It's not to say that there isn't evidence from Alexandria or Antioch. CHARLES STANG: Right. A lot of Christianity, as you rightly point out, I mean, it was an Eastern phenomenon, all over the eastern Mediterranean. But I don't understand how that provides any significant link to paleo-Christian practice. First, the continuity of the offices must be seen in light of the change of institutional charges; they had lost their religious connotations and had become secular. So Plato, Pindar, Sophocles, all the way into Cicero, Marcus Aurelius, it's an important thing. So the mysteries of Dionysus are a bit more of a free-for-all than the mysteries of Eleusis. And then that's the word that Euripides uses, by the way. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More Reviewed in the United States on January 29, 2023 Just from reading Dioscorides and reading all the different texts, the past 12 years have absolutely transformed the way I think about wine. Are they rolling their eyes, or are you getting sort of secretive knowing nods of agreement? First, I will provide definitions for the terms "pagan", "Christian", And she talks about kind of being born again, another promise from John's gospel. I expect we will find it. Again, if you're attracted to psychedelics, it's kind of an extreme thing, right? Those of you who don't know his name, he's a professor at the University of Amsterdam, an expert in Western esotericism. This an absolute masterclass on why you must know your identity and goals before forming a habit, what the best systems are for habit. I don't know why it's happening now, but we're finally taking a look. Maybe part of me is skeptical, right? And so that's what motivated my search here. I'm happy to argue about that. We have plays like the Bacchi from Euripides, where we can piece together some of this. It was it was barley, water, and something else. So I have my concerns about what's about to happen in Oregon and the regulation of psilocybin for therapeutic purposes. CHARLES STANG: Brian, I wonder if you could end by reflecting on the meaning of dying before you die.
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