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I've met members in USA, UK, Norway, Sweden,Germany,Brazil, Chile, Ireland, India and the Bahamas. He didn't even say hi to Tom or ask how he was. in CJ 725, Tagged: columbine, mass murderer, mental illness, school shootings. My parents didn't know anything I did, didn't care,and were happy if I stayed invisible. Its hard to tell. "However, there is credible, tangible, measurable, and repeatable evidence that there are some people, for whatever reason, have their brains wired differently.". Christ R22/R32/R39 et all. A 'Gentle Boy,' His Parents Told Investigators, Klebold Was Enrolled in an Elementary School Program for High Intellectual Potential Students. VOTN needs to get a clue. "Susan said, came when somebody said, "I forgive you for what you've done." Neither seemed to know where or with whom he was most of the time. x93There is no comfort for parents here,x94 Cullen told me yesterday. Dylan (Klebold) did not do this because of the way he was raised, Susan Klebold told columnist David Brooks in Saturdays editions of The New York Times. Sue had no idea it was a life-and-death situation. Sue Klebold with son Dylan in 1985. Credit: Sue Klebold via Penguin/Random House Tall, slim and graceful (her younger son was a gangly 193 centimetres tall), she is given to direct eye contact . Ed Berg, a former business associate who has talked to Tom Klebold since the shootings, said Dylan's father has come to grips with the boy's crime. Sue suggests that for someone as sensitive to humiliation and loss of control as Dylan, these types of events may have made a big influence on him, and created a bond between the boys. i dont particularly envision tom to be the type of parent to humiliate or pressure his sons. Or it's everything. As Dylan entered adolescence, he became a bit more complicated. No, they hated the gay boys almost as much as they hated the jocks. Dylan: (predicting his parents' feelings of regret) "If only we could have reached them sooner, or found this tape. Eric Harris was 17 and a hottie. Dylan also writes in his journal that. "They believe that what they call the "toxic culture" of the school the worship of jocks and the tolerance of bullying is the primary force that set Dylan off. I mean, I purposefully avoided everything except a quick glance at the CNN and MSNBC frontpages, but they had stories about the anniversary pretty front and center. Here's what you need to know: 1. AAron Ontiveroz/the Denver Post via Getty Images It's still about management. , What was the deadliest school shooting? These incidents happen because the majority of people choose to look the other way if a kid seems a little off. Based on the end of Cullen's book, who was of course supposed to be a guest, most of them have moved on. Dylan and Robyn had fun. For happy, easy-to-raise, and successful kids like him, it was easy to fly under their parents radar precisely because they were the shiny pennies, hiding the terrible pain they were in from their parents as capably as they did everything else (p. 65). ", Dylan: (interrupts) "We did what we had to do. crap, that is what I think of. Adam killed 20 children and 6 adults at Sandy Hook Elementary. Too bad a pack of rabid Columbine mommies can't get together and make a punching bag out of her. [quote]It is absolutely the parents vault. I think maybe his outlook grew worse over time. The giant whine of "I did my beeeeest!" Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris killed 13 people on April 20, 1999, before taking their own lives. There was a documentary on Netflix or somewhere in which she t. To me its really hard to determine the quality of a relationship based on how teenagers feel about it. You're far too stupid to ever see that though. Dylan Klebold Character Analysis. Without one factor (their brains) or the other (the guns), this wouldn't have happened the way it did, but I don't see the point of dismissing/elevating one over the other. Wayne & Kathy Harris' son is widely seen as the . They are particularly good at it. I worked as a dishwasher, then busboy then waiter in a German-American restaurant years ago when I was growing up. Think of kids who commit suicide - often you hear their family say, "We had no idea." Eric says if either the clerk or his father had asked just one question, "we would have been fucked.". "I just don't know how something that is so basic as how the brain works is something that can be treated with therapy.". His lower half can't be seen. it was probably dylan just being a snarky and sardonic person if the relationship had ever crumbled, or a classic father/son conflict. The teachers at Columbine all seemed incredibly disengaged. And for a best friend, did they spend much time together at all? We didnt realize it until after the end, Tom Klebold said. This thread is going to hell in jig time if it turns into the all-too-familiar "they were running up and down the aisles and that caused Columbine!!!" I knew it wasnt nearly so simple (p. 146). They crowned a queen, they crowned a king. But she came to realize the truth was far more troubling. Dylan Klebold and Ryan Harris killed 13 people at Columbine High School in Colorado in 1999. They've got a son who's very bright and makes good grades, yet he hasn't applied to college and has made only a half-assed attempt to enlist in the Marines (I think he made only one phone call to a recruiter). There are a myriad of factors to consider. So no, nothing in the gifted program could have helped this kid. We relate. Another migrant here from the other Columbine thread who's reading Cullen's book--. Klebold and Dylan's father, Tom, endured not only . The half-Jewish Dylan Klebold is more of a cipher. - You're all over this shit aren't ya? You can play the "if only" game all day long, but ultimately, it's nothing. How can that not bother you? This is my (completely layman's) opinion, but I've always figured that we have more or less tamped down the "How" of the brain, but we're still working on the "Why" of the brain. I believe it was either a sibling or playmates. Dylan Klebold had written about a "god-like figure" dressed in black, brutally gunning down fraternity-type boys. Denver area Jews, meanwhile, have expressed discomfort at the emphasis being paid to Klebold's alleged Jewishness. ", Dylan: (talks about how his parents taught him to be independent and self-reliant) "I appreciate that.". Pais was a student at Miami Beach High School who was reportedly obsessed with the school shooting at Columbine, the high school where 13 people were shot and killed 20 years ago. Sue provides details that help us address some of the other considerations as well. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. She hyped it up as a must see and an insight to what really happened. She behaves as if it is normal, as if she doesn't even hear it. Bedwetting, firesetting and cruelty to animals. You teach them to recognize triggers that exacerbate symptoms. When you think about it, in his journals he didn't have too much positive to say across the board. So he called me and offered to go to the school in hopes of negotiating with Dylan. When the clerk told him "Hey, your clips are in." Eric also said he had purposefully not been spending much time with his family so there wouldn't be much "bonding" leading up to April 20 since that would make it harder to do. I can handle them "spending too much time on the killers", but unfortunately I recognize there are too many whackjobs in this country who would just see it as glorification. After-hours phone calls to Times officials were not returned, and Brooks did not immediately respond to an e-mail request for comment. I am with R14 and 15. Similiarly if a child is screaming at playmates and/or siblings and will not stop, you have to move in and take control of the situation. Here, let me get your coats for you. Those kids were their responsibility legally. Brian Rohrbough, father of victim Daniel Rohrbough, said he was outraged that the Klebolds likened the day of the shootings to a natural disaster in the interview with Brooks. Sociopaths who undergo training often use that training to fake being normal in order to better manipulate people. I just don't get it. His dad followed him around with a camcorder, capturing every move. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold are once more in the family room of the Harris home. One particular incident was uncovered where Dylan and Eric (the other shooter) were surrounded by a group, pushed around, called slurs, and had ketchup sprayed on them. They lie. April 20, 2009 6:01 PM. "some manipulate, like my parents.". As the mother of Columbine High School shooter Dylan Klebold prepares to speak out in her first interview since the gruesome 1999 shooting massacre, a survivor of the attacks has . Both parents were gentle, educated people, who named their two boys after romantic poets x97 Dylan Thomas and Lord Byron x97 seemed to have given Dylan the message that so many of us recognize from our own childhoods: high school is hard, it will get better from here, wex92re here for you, we promise. It didn't help matters any that our father was an abusive asshole. Real estate records indicate they bought their 10-acre plot in 1990 for $65,000. : apparently tom was really hurt when 4/20 happened and grieved heavily because he felt like him and dylan were best friends, and had especially gotten closer in the months prior. Reviews: 81% of readers found this page helpful, Address: Suite 369 9754 Roberts Pines, West Benitaburgh, NM 69180-7958, Hobby: Worldbuilding, Shopping, Quilting, Cooking, Homebrewing, Leather crafting, Pet. That's why Dylan got one for Christmas 99, it was Tom's way of finding something to bond with with Dylan. WOuldn't one of the friends have felt him a little bit off, at the least? Eric Harris was quite the hottie, I don't understand why he had to go and kill himself. Her recounting of the details of Dylans life, combined with what we learned about school shooters in general, paints a picture of how this particular child ended up committing one of the most infamous massacres in American history. But they sure jumped at the chance to be on Oprah! The most undereducated, illiterate, ridiculous people become teachers. I'm not doubting what you're saying, and if you've got any insight, I'd love to hear it, but short of actually going in and manually rewiring neurons, it just seems like the best case scenario would be non-destructive analytical automaton. At approximately 11:19 a.m., Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, dressed in trench coats, began shooting fellow students outside Columbine High School, located in a suburb south of Denver. I believe the parents both left the Columbine area, and possibly the state of Colorado. In a video-diary-style recording, Dylan stated his parents had been good to him. The Columbine story was recently remade, with some editorial changes, as The Hottie and the Nottie starring Paris Hilton. A Further Examination: Sue Klebold's case study of her son, Dylan Klebold. x93Thatx94 happened to x93themx94 because they were bad parents, we could tell ourselves. I got picked on a lot and dealt with a lot of shit from the "jocks" and the "cool kids." In April 1981, Harris was born in Wichita, Kansas. Parenting is the ultimate denial of responsibility because it is always the OTHER PARENT'S FAULT. The oblivious parents in Target or sitting inside their houses listening to their kids having a meltdown and completely ignoring it. Dylan adds that they can have his things as well. What have I raised? Yes, it's the fifth anniversary of when you met your partner and you go out to dinner and somebody's child is relentlessly screaming throughout dinner that's fine. 1/12 Tom is home from the hospital. Really just the gerden variety sociopath stuff? Theyd never seen his rage, nor ever felt scared of him. Eric Harris's father (Wayne Harris) was a former Air Force pilot stationed at Plattsburgh AFB in New York, rumored to be linked to covert operations such as mind control. The couple said they felt under siege after the shooting and never had a chance to grieve for their son. (Stephanie . How often did they fix things up, was he emotionally available for Dylan? ", Dylan: "They gave me my fucking life. With these many, many factors in mind, I turn to A Mothers Reckoning. He still was the boy his parents joked seemed to be on autopilot (p. 65), but Sue notes that this may have been particularly dangerous in his case. r109 is quick to dismiss r108 as a "troll". Sunday, April 25, 1999; Page A8. Sorry if I can't be interested in something without arousing your ire. You teach people to manage their condition. By. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. In the April 24 column, Brooks had paraphrased an article in the online publication Slate that said Harris and Klebold yearned to become the most prolific mass murders in history. Although in their rantings, they seemed to have special hatred for fags, and various other epithets for minorities that I don't even like to write, let alone speak. When I was 16 my parents sure as hell would have known if I had firearms in my possession or were building pipe bombs anywhere near our home. Hey mom, gotta go Tom isnt even included in the insincere goodbye. ", "If they had even one shred of decency they would have taken full responsibility for creating and shaping and not monitoring these monsters.". No matter how angry they were they wouldn't be able to kill that many without those weapons. If I didn't know that I would have done the same. It profiles Sue Klebold, Dylan Klebold's mother, and examines what lessons Americans should take away from the tragedy. Kids hide things. Boston: Pearson. "I wonder if there was any homosex between those two.". (The OP was looking for books on personality mirroring and other techniques sociopaths use). Sue Klebold's son was one of the shooters in a mass killing at Columbine High School 19 years ago. He has always been excessively cruel to animals (he even shot and killed his own dog because it barked), obsessed with weapons, "charmingly" manipulative of adults, a pathological liar, disdainful of other people and abusive to them and VERY quick to anger. He had friends, but felt as if he were a burden; he wanted love, but the girl he was interested in didnt know he existed. 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Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were charged with theft, criminal mischief, and criminal trespassing for breaking into a van and . Firstly, like everyone else he didnt pick up on his mental health nor was Dylan apparently showing it to his best friend. I do find it odd that youd characterise your 17 year old son as your best friend anyway, youre his father. Ignore them. here are some tidbits that might help you with the question. They acknowledged they missed signs that their son was in trouble. "In my opinion, what went on in their home led to Columbine.". Most of you posters here are complete idiots and voiceofthenight is the biggest moron of them all. From many angles, Dylan was the average kid any parent would want. I was in high school at the time. I want you to have that fly CD. A few weeks ago, I reviewed Sue Klebold's memoir A Mother's Reckoning: Living in the Aftermath of Tragedy, about her experience as the mother of Dylan Klebold, one of the Columbine High School shooters.While I was able to share the manner by which she communicated her ideas and insights, I wasn't able to . They do not have a moral center that can be reached. I remember Oprah had teachers and students from Columbine on her show within a month of the event. A Mothers Reckoning: Living in the Aftermath of Tragedy. Dylan's mother, Sue Klebold, confirmed to radio host Terry Gross on "Fresh Air" Tuesday that she is Jewish, and her now ex-husband, Dylan Klebold's father, is Lutheran, and said her son . Tom and I failed to recognize these conditions and to curtail the influences violent entertainment, his friendship with Eric that exacerbated them. R17, would you call yourself more of a Harris or more of a Klebold? "In the very . It is actually a lot of conformist bunk to serve the status quo. Stop doing that." multiple newspapers and media outlets in the days after reported dylan and his father having the kind of relationship where, when dylan would come home from school, they would share a snack and read the sports section of the newspaper together. Eric was born in Wichita, Kansas. Mrs. Klebold had her hair done the day after the shooting. They then killed themselves in the school library. What is something of a mystery to me is why things reached the point they did. I'm sure they have given depositions but I don't think those were ever made public. They had heard the gunmen may have been part of the Trench Coat Mafia, a loose group of students, including their son, who said athletes at Columbine bullied them. Why does anyone think that parents know or care what their children do? But they confess that in the main, they have no explanation. These kids were calculating, smart and intent on destruction. Plus the drug industry makes a profit. I can handle them "spending too much time on the killers", but unfortunately I recognize there are too many whackjobs in this country who would just see it as glorification. They weren't bullied, and they weren't outcasts; all of that came from the non-stop media echo chamber that followed the events. Harris also had sadistic tendencies, which propelled him to "seek vengeance.". The owner (a woman) had no qualms about going up to people with a screaming child and saying "You need to take ze child out to ze car vare he can calm down. Yesterday there was a girl in her backyard screaming like an insane person at somebody or something. Shocking crime scene photos explode the myths and reveal shocking details! For not seeing that, I will never forgive myself.. She went to Ohio State University where she dated Tom. None of us knows exactly how the brain works. When early word came that the Trench Coat Mafia may be involved in the shooting, Tom ran downstairs to look for Dylans trench coat, which he couldnt find, Lozow said. Just know I'm going to a better place. His negative traits werent out of the ordinary either, really: he was very sensitive to embarrassment, which sometimes led to anger; and he was perhaps a little too independent, where he wouldnt ask for help even if he needed it like when he had to take a break from baseball after pains he never mentioned became so bad they caused his arm real damage. They could still have been on the outskirts of the school. The narrator seemed to revel in the graphic violence he was depicting, but it was the final passage that was particularly disturbing, where Dylan conveyed unabashed awe and . "Hey, Sci-fi-tologist, fuck off with your anti-psychology bullshit". The goal seems to have been parental appeasement. When asked about Dylan's behavior, Byron indicated that Dylan appeared to be somewhat detached and he went on to explain that as a "pissed off teenager." Byron went on to state that Dylan gave no indication to believe that something like this was going to occur. Subject: Re: The Klebolds are DIVORCED Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:17 pm. In this case, the other shooter played a pivotal role in stoking Dylans rage and allowing him to break out of his own passivity and actually take steps toward the suicide he craved. At approximately 11:19 a.m., Dylan Klebold, 17, and Eric . Tom seemed to view Dylan as his best friend/soulmate, at least according to what Sue has told us. . In the vacuum of actual news, they just start over again. Tom had a huge hobby for fixing up BMW's. Attacks seem planned in advance, with the shooter expecting to be killed or planning to commit suicide in conjunction with the attack. It was weird. Maybe that's what I find so scary about the whole thing, that there are people who walk around, every day, and are completely lacking in everything that I thinks makes us human. And he's not pulling a lot of punches about the media saturation either, and doesn't let the Rocky off the hook. Some psychopaths are obsessed with money or power, but when you combine psychopathy with sadism, you get an Eric Harris. (They said no.) There are several bags on the floor, including a large maroon one. R16 = Female with daddy issues who doesn't take kindly to unkind remarks toward her fellow twats. Klebold's body was . He was one of the teens behind the Columbine High School Massacre in 1999. School shooters often show little attachment to their school. Am I supposed to be impressed by dates, VOTN? No scientist knows this absolutely. Dylan Klebold, along with his friend Eric Harris, shot and killed 13 people and injured 23 others in April, 1999 in Columbine High School, before they turned their guns on . Based on what I've read so far, he's working off the assumption that Klebold was a depressive with self-destructive tendencies (he mentions suicide over and over in the journal kept for two years prior to the incident), and that Harris was a full-blown psychopath. Sue would later find out through his journals though that by sophomore year he was battling depression and suicidal thoughts. LITTLETON, Colo. (AP) _ Columbine High School gunman Dylan Klebold was a follower, not a leader, who went astray after he met Eric Harris, friends say. I'm with VoTN on this one. I guess it's my generation. That kid was born with some sort of brain injury. Eric David Harris (April 9, 1981 - April 20, 1999) and Dylan Bennet Klebold (/ . I think he was broken over the loss of his son, and wants to remember the boy Dylan was and not the murder he became? Any pix of the monster creators? Dylan was remembered as a Cub Scout who attended church with his family. [quote]He had been in a gifted child program, and you'd think they'd have some type of monitoring since kids who are that advanced frequently have problems. comes from the shittiest of shitty, lazy parent(s). After the killing: How parents of attackers cope. Harris was a "budding psychopath, a person without a conscience," he said. To develop coping skills. He was afraid Dylan might be involved. You shouldn't attack people for the actions of their offspring. Other than that, we don't have much indication that Tom was anything other than a good father. The perpetrator often has faced peer or social rejection, endured bullying, has anger about the bullying, and lacks the social or coping skills to deal with these issues. We monitored what movies our boys could see, and put them to bed with stories and prayers and hugs (p. 61). You're a judgmental twat, r14. I don't believe that Tom and Sue were annoying parents. At the same time, the father must have believed that his son's future was still bright. His parents didnt yet know to monitor his internet usage. At the beginning, when he writes about the good things in his life, he mentions his parents. His mom was trying to find the best fit for him, but I suspect it ended up being more difficult for him), and both enjoyed violent video games. By the time of the shooting, facing his intense feelings of alienation, she says his journals show the only emotions Dylan could connect to were anger and hopelessness. I don't believe I've said anything about gun control, of which this country has far too little of. She is the author of A Mother's Reckoning, a book about the signs she missed of Dylan's mental state. Susan insists, "I haven't done anything for which I need forgiveness." Dylan wrote an essay about a school shooting that disturbed his teacher enough that it was referred to the school counselor. In the days after Dylan Klebold along with Eric Harris shot and killed 12 students and one teacher and then himself at Columbine High School on April 20, 1999, his mother, Sue Klebold, remembered . Ten years after the Columbine killings, the Harris family has not spoken publicly at all, and the Klebold parents have given one interview, to the columnist David Brooks here at the New York Times. But there isn't one thing. They were not the mainstream group. Everyone ones there to be one systemic cause, one thing that failed, to point to and say "there, that's why this happened." It may have hurt him. Answer (1 of 2): His mother has (admirably, if belatedly) committed herself to educating people on how to spot the signs of malignant tendencies in their children in an effort to help separate real danger signs from "normal" teen BS. "So we're back to Pavlov and Skinner. It's far more complicated than a matter of discipline. A few weeks ago, I reviewed Sue Klebolds memoir A Mothers Reckoning: Living in the Aftermath of Tragedy, about her experience as the mother of Dylan Klebold, one of the Columbine High School shooters. I don't know if the Klebolds had any inkling at all, but I really don't get the Harrises. A place to discuss the massacre that took place at Columbine High School in Littleton, CO on April 20th, 1999. In a story for Sundays editions of The Post, Lozow related the first moments after the Klebolds learned of the shooting. Sue Klebold is the mother of Dylan Klebold, one of the two shooters at Columbine High School in 1999 who killed 15 people before ending their own lives, a tragedy that saddened and galvanized the nation. Dylan seems to have been a very unhappy person. Okay, well, first of all, gifted programs don't monitor shit. Discover Detailed Biography Of Dylan Klebold Wiki, Net Worth, Age, Fa . Growing up in Ohio, she had a mixed religious upbringing with her Christian mother and Jewish father. Yet, despite a happy upbringing, Dylan still did what he did. When I was in high school, my mother knew everyone I went, who I associated with, what I read, what I had my room, etc. Brown can . I couldn't put the book down, and even though I thought I knew the ending of the story, or at least most of it, I have to admit, the last couple of chapters, specifically the one detailing the Basement Tapes, and the one about what had happened leading up to Harris and Klebold committing suicide were fucking frightening. 'Toxic culture' blamedHe was hopeless. Don't believe me? 9-11-1981 -- 17 year old son of Mr. Thomas Klebold (then 52) and Mrs. Susan (Yassenoff) Klebold (then 50), younger brother to Byron (21 at the time). "This was murder," he said. "Doctors" can profit, too, financially, when their names are attached to certain "studies.". Hail Reb &VoDka!!!!!!!!! KleboldI started reading the Columbine book, how does he try to explain Klebold? But she focuses greatly on the lead-up to that day, hoping to shed light on what happened to her son in order to help someone else see signs in their own child while they still have a chance to intervene. Psychiatry has long attacked outsiders of all kinds, including gays, while not saying a word about society. I am certain that Sue no longer lives there but she still does visit the house as two Columbiners took a Columbine/E &D tour" in Jan .or Feb and saw Sue outside the house as they drove by. i cannot remember nor can i find the source for this but im half certain its in his interview in the 11k. Just three days before the shooting, he went to prom with a friend. Eric: "Susan, sorry. I'm sure they still live in Columbine and are active in many community functions, especially the PTA. "Mrs. Klebold had her hair done the day after the shooting". End of story. Eric David Harris and Dylan Bennet Klebold were a pair of school shooters, bombers, and mass murderers responsible for the April 20, 1999 Columbine High School Massacre in Columbine, Colorado, which killed thirteen people and wounded 21 others before ending with both of their suicides. You can't learn to feel if you don't. COLUMBINE HIGH SCHOOL massacre - WikiVidi Documentary. Dylan Klebold had been accepted by the University of Arizona and planned to attend this fall. That's the first thing. He injured 2 students before his gun jammed and he was arrested. I wonder if there was any homosex between those two. "American Tragedy" premieres at the Boston Film Festival on Thursday at 7 p.m. ", Eric: (eventually) "That's it. YOU SHOULD NOT STOP ME FROM EXPRESSING MY OPINION!!!!! if anyone can correct or find the sources for me that would be greatly appreciated! Tom's surgery was today. Talking about the home video they took of that day, Its absolutely stunning how normal Dylan seems (p. 235). Betty Shoels, Isaiah's aunt, said that "her 18-year-old nephew was a fun-loving athlete who was always smiling, despite feeling out of place as one of the school's few African-American students." .