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Regardless if the buyer has never auditioned the unit, and found it corresponding to, Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / Empirical Audio reclocking system: Synchro-Mesh Reclocker driven by Dynamo Linear Power Supply, 2 x Reference BNC digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Less is More (LIM) DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors, on Sound Anchors Signature stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers / Cables: ZenWave Audio D4 interconnects, ZenWave SMSG speaker cables / Diverse Herbie's Audio Lab footers / Acoustic treatment: Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties (wool, polypropylene basketweave), Sure absolutely agree that paying that much money without auditioning (preferably in my house, with my own equipment, in my room) does not make much sense. home system and listening for that end result. I say take what everyone post when a grain of salt, because an individual's preference may be different than yours. Search: Msb Discrete Dac Vs Chord Dave. Now to include the HMS. It has the option for two PSUs and once you hear with both it becomes a necessity to have both. Digital: Jay's Audio CDT2 MK2 CD transport, Modified MHDT Labs Balanced Pagoda DAC. While it's an easy setup to wrangle at a show, it does seem like it wasn't doing either component any favours! Dave Chord Dac Vs Discrete Msb - 111.toptrans.milano.it Of course this DAC is super pricey and out of the reach of many (including me). The BADA Ref is a great DAC and I understand the new version takes it to even another level. MSBs top-level DAC is 121K and there are other brands out there offering very expensive options, but the truth is that the vast majority of people will never feel the need to spend that kind of money (even if they could) to eek out that last-minute bit of detail. the Extreme has some special optimization for USB. Besides that the MSB looks so much better. Mind you, I have chipless DSD with 1 bit processing, so the bar is set VERY high for me. and the MSB Select II has a huge advantage over other dacs with its modularity and in-house development which promotes, in a very timely way, keeping the product at the very tip top cutting edge of digital interface developments. And this level of detail the MSB Discrete brings to the listening experience was carried through everything I listened toand I listened to this DAC a lot, with it being the only thing I used to for a solid two weeks. And thinking more about it, the differences at the time could have been small because the noise level in my system at the time of the comparison were relatively higher than they are now. Chord Dave DAC "Sealed Box Brand New" Never Opened !! The Discrete Power Supply feeds the DAC with dual low-noise power streams that are linear and independent. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates. Elevator Pitch Review: Built in America, the MSB Discrete is a modular DAC that also acts as a preamplfier, though, as supplied, it has no analogue inputs. digital front ends. You are using an out of date browser. Toggle signature. MSB are an American brand headed up by the brothers Jonathan and Daniel Gullman and located in Silicon Valley, California where they design and build a range of amplifiers, transports, and DACs. It is an unassuming but very nicely put together component that has had a great deal of thought put into the architecture of the parts that make it up. Stainless steel buttons arrayed around an elegant volume wheel to optimize performance and response. msb discrete dac vs chord dave - 1click3d.com Equipped with high-visibility and a wide viewing angle, the display is both easy-to-read and stunning, exhibiting our love for intuitive features. The Pro USB was developed to offer a multi part USB solution that features complete electrical isolation and all the performance of MSBs proprietary Pro ISL input. We are Euphony Summus, EtherRegen, MSB Discrete. has 20 hours on it. Founded in 2010 Whats Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. I suppose that the vast majority of people who listen for pleasure at home are looking for a balance between the two, and whilst I still maintain we are most likely to hear the biggest effect in a system by changing transducers, every element in the chain of sound will affect the final sound and, in a digital system, I think the DAC you choose can have a huge effect on the final sound. CD - SACD DAC player Music Server MSB Technology, CH precision,Chord The MSB simply offered more of everything and to my ears proved again that a true multi bit converter/ladder DAC is superior to delta/sigma or FPGA DACs. The Dave as a DAC actually sounds decent. But DAVE also seems to me to highlight the original recording so if the recording is flat, the playback sounds flat (still with great accurate timbre) but if the recording really showcase the soundstage and the 3-dimensionality of the instruments and vocals, DAVE really portrays that well. There is the option to add a streaming module to the Discrete and if I was in the market for a digital streaming solution, then this is where I would be going. Once populated, the circuit boards are made into modules and then placed inside the casework. What didn't you like about the Dave? You must log in or register to reply here. Up to 32 bit 768kHz In my assessment the Makua offered a more open and spacious sound. But even with great preamps, a great DAC in a low noise environment, will produce a more transparent sound going direct to the amps than through the preamp. I'm looking for suggestions on DACs I should listen to as possible replacement of my Chord Dave. SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 256-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical--Bricasti M3 DAC--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9eh61-lampizator-pacific-da-converters, https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/lampizator-pacific-dac/, https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/subjective-grading-of-dac-that-i-had-heard-during-last-one-year-period. It seems to me that manufacturers are jacking up the price for the perception of quality. There is no dark magic involved. I auditioned a DAVE (not deconstructed) and TT2 and found all Chord products lacked the musicality of MSB. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Chord DAVE Review (DAC & HP Amp) How does the PS Audio DirectStream DAC compare to the Chord DAC? By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies. I may need to reset expectations a bit lower: This is an update to some old DAVE vibration control posts. StereoNET (Australia) is part of an international network of publications owned wholly by Sound Media Group (Australia). MSB thrives off the innovation required to meet consumer demands. By Analogue Volume Control 1dB from 0 to 106 Deactivable by menu, Dimensions ChassisWidth : 432 mmDepth: 305 mmHeight without feet: 51 mm. I have a PS Audio DSD ATM and it is also on the warm side which is good, but I'm thinking I need something more neutral due to my speakers being fairly warm and full bodied in their own right to take my system to the next level. for instance, the Select II is modular (customers can easily change modules in seconds)so it has the ability to quickly modify its inputs to allow for optimization of various interfaces. I thought the DAVE was just as stunning with DSD as PCM. It is a manual step which I forgot. I haven't heard MSB or theDenafrips DAC. The other thing I've learned about the Chord Dave is it can sound very different depending on the interconnect and/or power cord used. The DACs are individually shielded and thermally-bonded and multiple units are used per channel, which MSB tells us increases performance and lowers output impedance. And what streamer are you using to feed the DAC? The AC modules are fully balanced at every stage, have no buffers, IV converters, or transistors in the signal path, and have no active devices used in the conversion process at all. RCA outputs with the optional output module Voltage: 3.57 Vrms Maximum Impedance > 600 High Gain setting. However, its also very nice to listen to in this system, though I would say it is more accurate/true to the original DAC than our LAB12 DAC or perhaps our Lampizator BIG 7. There hasn't been any direct comparison of them with Select II, Trinity DAC, CH D1/C1, Totaldac D12 etc in Hong Kong yet. There are so. The MSB Renderer was developed using an in-house hardware design running an ultra low noise A5 processor for optimal audio playback performance. I'll take a look, however I've heard they're on the warm side? The PSUs are available to match. It is bested easily by DACs at $150. Strangely, this new review is not displayed when you select the review folder on the homepage. This very pleasant sound I was experiencing, it could be argued, was to a large degree down to the choice of amplifier and what that added to the mix, and I do think this is a valid argument. It was a speaker setup (as in my signature.) Focusing on our network renderer and USB input, your audio tech will be on the cutting edge. The LED display, slaved to the audio clock, is refreshed between data processing to drastically reduce electrical interference. Do diamonds shine on the dark side of the moon? Since opening our doors in 1986, weve been driven by one goal: to craft an unrivaled listening experience for music lovers across the globe. With the Bartok now quite a few $$$ more, the Tambaqui represents a fantastic price v performance ratio that would be at home in most highly resolving systems. and build quality is also excellent. To my ears it makes music sound unnatural. @ricred1, I would like to suggest you take a look at the Mola Mola Tambaqui when it arrives later this month I understand. If you take a look at their website you will see that the machining shop is a fully equipped facility designed to meet the needs of a company producing high-quality cases in which the electronics will be fitted no off the shelf or cheap bent metal cases here! Others might disagree but these are my findings. I would,however, like to say we are highly selective over the brands we represent and believe they are excellent value. DLNA Protocol. JavaScript is disabled. Or arm yourself with a nice bottle of red and pay a visit to@Stereophilus. this was how I originally decided to purchase the Select II as I was trying to hear another dac at shows that could do what I heard the Select II doing at a lower price. Jon Hopkins Music For Psychedelic Therapy was a beautifully enveloping experience, made all the more so as sounds come and go in the soundstage in a somewhat more solid way than without the usual DAC. Point 75 EmmLab Dac2 I paid 9K$ for this on 2010. I just heard DAVE directly connected to MacBook Pro via USB without any expensive cables, headphone amplifier, power conditioner. @shkong78 how good is the dave + mscaler vs msb? Anyway, the little bit of extra detail on the strings, the attack, and decay are all there to be heard and its a marvelous thing to listen to. Tailored for both the transport and the DACs daily use, our remote brings you closer to the music you love. Elegant yet commanding, our finishes are available in a matte silver or matte black anodize. Stuart Smith finds out. DAC Comparison Reference DAC Modules 4x Hybrid DAC Clock The Femto 33 Digital Inputs 4x User Replaceable Input Slots Optical and Coaxial input module Included Analog Outputs Preamp XLR Output Module - 150 Impedance RCA output available with external adapter Analog Inputs XLR Analog Expansion Modules RCA or XLR Input RCA or XLR Output I was upgrading it in this order and still could not believe every time it sounded better. @smodtactical I would not take price as any arbitrator of quality, especially nowadays. Funny how Rob Watts drones on and on about noise modulation, and then we see his product performing like this.. now one might not exactly call this noise modulation, but it definitely something to avoid, especially given the price tag. In my listening tests, I could detect no attribute that made it sound special. They are excellent pairing. I agree with what you are saying but "far too often" the Too objective for subjectivists; too subjective for objectivsts. 1 - MSB Discrete 2 - dCS Bartok 3 - Mola Mola Tambaqui 4 - Chord DAVE (add the M Scaler later) 5 - Keep my Ayre QX-5 Twenty, do nothing Thanks! the North American distributors for Rockna so I thought I would jump in on this Chord Dave Replacement. It would be absolute suicide for an audio distributor to CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE | Page 887 - Head-Fi Focal Utopia ~ LCD i4 ~ ETHER FLOW open/C ~ LCD-2.2/XC ~ Nighthawk ~ K10 custom ~ JH Angie, Chord mscaler // Chord TT2 // Oppo PM-1 (Artisan silver headphone cable) // Beyerdynamic DT880 600 Ohm // WAVE Stream bnc cables // Kef LS50 Meta. All rights reserved. those surpass any other digital choice. @astewart8944--two years ago in Feb of 17 i did audition the original Formula dac in my system directly compared to the Lampizator GG 1.5 and the Nagra HD and preferred the Formula for its greater space, lower noise, and more neutral and fast presentation. Concluding that there is some kind of problem with using an FPGA vs. what MSB does is not technically supportable. Audiogon Discussion Forum as my Select II sits it would list for $116,450. Can it output a Low or High Voltage on a single pin in a bitstream? Ok, I looked a prat but it proves that the separate PSUs are actually doing something rather than being there for show, though they do look rather cool in themselves. This latter recording gets played to death at shows, but that doesnt detract from it being a very good tune and a very good recording, though I have been known to take the piss a bit when it gets played for the tenth time in a day at audio events. Sources: Hiby R6, Fiio x3II, Fiio x5II DACs: Dave, Yggdrasil, Hugo, Hugo TT, U12. For such a high entry price I wouldn't take the gamble to go on some recommendation by a stranger whose tastes I don't know. As you mentioned imaging better, incredible PRaT with MSB. It may not display this or other websites correctly. This is a company that is All American and fiercely proud of that fact. The MSB DAC comes with one external PSU as standard. What effect does reconstruction filter have? The MSB Discrete DAC is an American made Digital to Analogue Converter costing 11,000 plus an extra 1650 for the second external power supply. To be 100% honest we have A/B tested most of the dacs mentioned I also looked at the MSB Discrete DAC but everything thing was an extra cost option (USB, AES/EBU, power supply, etc.,) and expensive. But MSB Select 2 is regarded by many as the best thats why for something 1/10 of the price to compete in anyones eyes is quite an accomplishment. In terms of sound quality, it's the best digital front end I . I could not so, after 2 years of trying, I bought it. retail client forgets that most audio stores and audio distribution companies Bespoke Audio Ultimate Silver TVC passive preamp, Totaldac xlr version D1-Drivers x2, Eisteddfod 340 & 840 amps, Magico S5 speaker, MSB Select DAC, MSB Select Transport, Nakamichi 700 XLE cassette deck, Taiko Audio Extreme Server, Tripoint Troy Signature NG groundbox, PLiXiR Elite 1500 isolation transformers. Audiogon Discussion Forum That is not to say that a preamp doesn't produce value with respect to other sound quality characteristics that may affect the personal appeal of the musical reproduction (e.g., soundstage), or that the extra transparency won't reveal system issues, but there is no question that transparency is higher when going straight to the amps. So yes it's a question of being polite, but it's also about acknowledging the limitations inherent in making absolute pronouncements about differences between high performing components. I'd also look at the Mola-Mola Tambaqui and the new dCS Bartok. Like a true audiophile with "issues", I'm saying to myself, if at $8300 Im outputting directly to the LAB12 (and later a Krell KST100) power amp and so a digital volume algorithm is used where the digital volume control is left at a relatively high output so as not to encounter loss at lower volume levels. johndoe21ro Have you thought about hooking up a Blu2 to Dave? the Select II pushes the analog to be its best. Very resolving, tone is on the cold side of neutral but otherwise pretty free of digital nasties compared to the cheaper Chords, and the stage is flatter than Keira Knightley. It is just as important as the DAC itself. I know it is a standard talking point by some to suggest that Chord DACs aren't as good with DSD as PCM. Will do. First let me preface my comments by stating that I have not heard a lot of high end DACs in my system. other dacs I have enjoyedin no particular order; I would not call this second tier; but I prefer what hear from my Select II to what Ive heard from these. The dCS Bartok was also interesting but, based on my research, I kept coming back to Bricasti. Everyone hears differentlyI heard the Dave with the Blu and I prefer it without it. You're very polite about how you describe your preferences, cmarin. Pass Labs INT-60. The DAC comes equipped with a single power supply, but can be augmented with a second discrete power supply to enable optimized power isolation between all major components. Thanks guys! Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by mtoc, Jun 9, 2016. This latter track is a good track for me to play when listening to new kit as it is basically a drum machine and an acid box and this latter did sound just like a 303 there in the room. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. 2 are upscalers , not upsamplers. The Prime DAC Module. - Up to 32 bit - 768kHz. Mike, Scott has been absolutely wonderful in his support, despite my purchasing the Found-Music 2A3s used (from Art S.) He has visited once and is planning another visit after the trip your way. Digital inputs : RCA coax, AES/EBU XLR, 2x Toslink optical, 2x module slots, word . have had the opportunity to A/B many more pieces of equipment than any consumer And the Jeff Rowland Aeris DAC with new PSU. MSB DACs also use a processing chip to handle oversampling and digital filtering (not sure if this chip is an FPGA or other type processing chip, but it is a high speed digital processing chip). which make some people prefer this one to MSB Select II Point 85 Chord Dave and Mscaler (or Blue II transport) This one give transparent and 3D soundstage with excellent details. Putting price aside, what are your thoughts about the Hugo TT as an integrated DAC+amp? personal preference. I havent heard the Rockna. I'm really anxious to hear more opinions about this DAC and noticed that DAVE hasn't got a thread of its own (only together with Mojo). I've owned a PS Audio I don't have that kind of money. As it stands, the Discrete offers a very good solution should you be a music lover that plays only digital files and you can go straight into a power amp. In my assessment the Makua offered a more open and spacious sound. Elegant design. . The SQ is amazingly good. I'm looking for suggestions between $10K - $12K. You are using an out of date browser. Bespoke Audio Ultimate Silver TVC passive preamp, Totaldac xlr version D1-Drivers x2, Eisteddfod 340 & 840 amps, Magico S5 speaker, MSB Select DAC, MSB Select Transport, Nakamichi 700 XLE cassette deck, Taiko Audio Extreme Server, Tripoint Troy Signature NG groundbox, PLiXiR Elite 1500 isolation transformers. Were constantly improving digital input modules to stay at the forefront of the high-end audio industry, ensuring youre always equipped with the most current digital file formats and interfaces. Talking of cool lets talk about this remote. but with digital things change quickly, and a month ago I got a new server, the SGM Extreme. I have personally not observed this - with either the DAVE or my Mojo. Thanks for the suggestions Wisnon. and as I said earlier there is no "best" when it comes to dacs or There is no such thing as a "FPGA DAC"! It's my understanding that the Wavedream only For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Always use!! Best DACs comparison test result [[My Subjective Opinion]] In comparison to spdif which feels more 3D but relatively smaller sound stage, with better separation, vocals are more focused/accurate, everything sounds more evenly balanced. It's pretty funny how everyone gives their personal pet recommendation with the utmost confidence that the buyer will like it. It's easy! Vega DAC 6/10 As dynamic as the Weiss, but a little too edgy in sound emphasised presence made female voices a bit hard on the ear. My wife said it Directstream, Bricasti M1, Jeff Rowland Aeris, Chord Dave, and today I Best DACs comparison test result [[My Subjective Opinion]] The Premier is a super-high-resolution, completely silent, utterly dynamic component that lets music flow through it less hindered than through anything else I've heard. The Chord DAVE was also on my list, but I decided to pass (my Chord retailer was very 'pushy' and not helpful). Moving away from the actual sound of the music, one of my main takeaways from listening to the Discrete was the sense of timing it brought to music. So I personally prefer to listen to different DACs just like I prefer to listen to analog as well as digital. DAVE stands for 'Digital to Analogue Veritas in Extremis', a moniker that best reflects the product's . Digital Audio Forum: DAC, Transports, Digital Processing Forum, 4x20A circuits | Audioquest Niagara 3000 | Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, HQPlayer, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen | Aqua Acoustic Quality LinQ streamer | Aqua Acoustic Quality Formula xHD Rev. 2001-2023 Head-Fi.org. I own the MSB Select II with the dual powerbases and 33 Femto Clock. dac at a reasonable price. The only true way for the end user to know what they prefer is through listening in their own system.. I can see the problem with this unit. let me know when it's on, I'll make my way down if I can. 2 DAC | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech Classic 550L jumpers, Shunyata PCs / Eth. This is the main advantage of DAVE (i.e. Whats Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. The MSB simply sounded more real to my ears and offered a more convincing soundstage and tonality and all the tiny informations in the music where integrated in the musical flow whereas the DAVE simply sounded flat and not realistic to my ears and even lacked those tiny informations. When you get the chance to hear Chord DAVE, try playing files bit perfect instead of upsampling them to DSD256 with HQPlayer. The Discrete DAC uses two of these modules per unit. With two prime DACs, the MSB Discrete yields an unprecedented level of detail that reproduces the musicality, soundstage and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. Still, it's the way I prefer at this stage. What ice cream do you prefer? Never say never, but I reckon 99.9% of folk would get to the Discretes level of performance and not be able to justify another 110K to achieve, what I am guessing would be marginal gains though I have not experienced the Select and so cannot say for sure that this would be the case and it may be a total revelation is sonic engineering. Im participating to both learn and make suggestions where I have experience that may help. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites. If I had been responsible for coding that display I would never tell anyone. Thanks for the suggestion ecwl. How hot does the Chord DAC get? The good DS (delta sigma) dacs that aren't hard or harsh, are a bit of a yawn, and lack bringing out the life (boogie factor) of the music, but in a . Chord DAVE - DAC/Amp/Pre-Amp - Official Thread I wired it all up and the unit lit up but I could get no sound out of it whatsoever. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/, Check the true bit-depth of your files and audio engine, Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences, Know your limits (Sound Exposure Safety Chart), Topping DX7 Pro+ vs Chord DAVE measurements (Cosmos ADC) - DAVE is better in some areas (surprise! Aurender W20-> Lampizator Pacific SE -> Ayon Crossfire III or Circle Labs A100 -> Avantgarde Acoustic Trio LE 26 with 4x REL Carbon Special ,SACD Player: Audio Aero La Fontaine. Its not bombarding you with information, but it is a notably more defined sound with regards to the spatial information and the way that elements sit in the mix a tad more solidity and more of a sense of the stereo image being wider and deeper and with instruments and sounds occupying a definite space of their own. Couldn't agree more. I've also learned that a DAC's performance will depend heavily on the music player. When I have done the comparison with other DACs I have had at the same time - Ayre QX5-Twenty, EAR Dac 4, exasound e32 - often the immediate impression is that DAVE/Blu 2 is not quite as good - a bit dryer sounding, not quite as smooth, not as airy or three dimensional And yet, over the longer term, it is deeply satisfying at a musical level in a way that the other DACs are not.